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Separating Categories w/ Clinic Skip

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  • Separating Categories w/ Clinic Skip

    Hey all, this is a post in regards to creating separate categories for both Any% Current Patch, and All Bosses which will exclude the clinic skip. Any active runner's opinions are relevant, so don't be afraid to speak up. This approach will keep the progress that everyone has made so far with the new routes, but keeps the categories separate. This is more relevant in Any%, as it completely changes the route, but also impacts All Bosses. This would also coincide with moving the All Quitouts Any%, and both No Quitouts categories to miscellaneous to avoid too many sub categories, and to align all the main categories with unified sub categories. Thanks! -Ahady

  • #2
    Something that I think should be considered is this skip does affect every category, including AA & BL4 categories.


    • #3
      That is true, reason enough to do a split for all the categories that could include the skip, just for completeness


      • #4
        Targeting both variants of true Any% is unnecessary because they are just fine as they are.
        The record is still kinda recent despite the category not being ran.
        I only absolutely agree it's time for all No Quitout to just go, not even be in Miscellaneous, especially if categories with and without Cookie Skip take places.


        • #5
          if people are willing to do that, I am certainly all for it (removing no quit entirely) but I think it's definitely best to let this forum run for a little bit and then pick some options to vote from on an actual poll.


          • #6
            Yes, I would really disagree with true Any% being targeted at all, because it's true Any%, Any% Current Patch or All Bosses are by no mean that. nor will they ever be.
            Also, I don't remember why true Any% (Partial Quitouts) even exists, I only remember having to go through all runs to check what would fit there, which for me, was obviously a breeze.


            • #7
              It is just a quality of life category, but hasn't seen much activity regardless.


              • #8
                Iirc it was a request in discord from Romanticore that lasted like 15 minutes before the new category was created without even people saying if there were okay with it or no


                • #9
                  What I dont understand is why all quitouts even exists, its a garbage category (20 minutes of gameplay, 10 minutes of loading screens even with a ps4 pro and ssd). I think partial quitouts should be the only old patch category. The only thing all quitouts does for the run is make it more annoying to play and all the other categories are already partial quitouts, so why does this one have to be an exception? just because that is what was decided in the past doesnt mean it cant change for the better now.

                  That being said, I agree with everything Ahady said and I'm fine with deleting no quitout categories if thats what people want.


                  • #10
                    All Souls games have "1.00" categories (except Demon's Souls), it's not really hard to figure out why even one person would care about still having that up.
                    It is the fastest category in Bloodborne.


                    • #11
                      But you would still have old patch any% partial quitouts, literally the exact same run, just with less loading screens that only makes it more annoying and boring.
                      Last edited by zPinkman; 03-03-2020, 03:16 PM.


                      • #12
                        After double checking, nope, they have the same runners, pretty much. True Any% (Partial Quitouts) could go too.
                        Last edited by ffleret; 03-03-2020, 03:24 PM.


                        • #13
                          While i'm not active as we speak and on a little BB break... this is my main game and I do intend to return sooner than later so here's my 2 cents:

                          For no quitout categories, I never understood why it was a thing tbh. I can understand glitchless and believe it deserves a category. No quitout just always made me think "why". So with all due respect to ppl that grinded good times in those categories... I would be totally fine if we got rid of all no quitout categories.

                          For old patch I kind of feel the same. Though it's nice to have it archived as the original runs of the game, I don't think it's relevant anymore. Nobody watches these vods. Nobody inquires about the old patch runs. Also, anyone who plays digitally is already removed from that category as you need the disc iirc. I will say if enough ppl want to keep old patch thats fine too. I think it is more worthy than no quitout as a category but no complaints from me if we removed old patch all together as well.

                          As for cookie skip I didn't think banning it was the right move. It is a valid skip and should remain viable in some capacity. I'm actually ok with the separate categories if that is what we decide. The skip opens up so many possibilities for routing in all categories. I feel like everyone would do it in AA runs so AA might not need a separate category. The run is long enough that I don't think it risks "breaking" the category. I don't run AA as of now so I can't speak too much on that though.

                          The few things i'm considering is that it is a massive skip that changes the game and routing significantly. It requires a good bit of rng and can save enough time to have huge impact on all of the categories. Also, it's true that not everyone has to do it but I can see the top of the leaderboards becoming a cold dead place in the future. I can also see some good things coming out of it too though. People would now have 2 AB and 2 any% categories to grind with different expectations and routing and tech involved etc. There are valid arguments on both sides of this but I think separate categories is a good middle ground. People that enjoy it can grind away on a real leaderboard for it. People that want nothing to do with it can grind classic routes without it.

                          TLDR: I'm ok with no quitout and old patch categories being removed. I think seperate categories for cookie skip is the best solution for everyone.
                          Last edited by BLTNJ; 03-03-2020, 04:52 PM.


                          • #14
                            As a non runner, I don't feel particularly comfortable adding my opinion to those of runners but I thought I would still share my thoughts on the situation:

                            Personally, from an outsider perspective and as of right now, I'd lean towards allowing the skip in all categories. My reasons being:

                            - I have kind of a hard time defining this as some type of "major" or special skip that completely engulfes or changes how this run works. Typically, major glitches or skips that have a significant impact on the run (I'd say something is major if there is an instance of skipping a significant portion of the game, or completely changes how the initial run worked) could warrant their own category, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
                            - Besides that, the skip is very new and rather unexplored. Potentially becoming more consistent over time and create some trouble if categories are separated.
                            - Essentially, it changes the route but it also adds a rather big chunk of RNG on top of it. Runners liking or not liking the added RNG is essentially just subjective reasoning and is something I wouldn't consider a very reasonable argument to ban a skip. Any runner could not like a skip and therefor want it to not exist in a category, doesn't mean it's necessarily a logical argument to create separate categories for each of them. That's all I can really say about that.

                            As far as No Quitouts go, I agree with ffleret that even though it's not very pleasing to do.. it's still the fastest method to gain time in IGT so I don't see much reason to remove it. Quitouts themselves are simply used as a mechanic to skip animations and also used to perform some rather big skips in the run. Saying one could only "partially" quitout on a certain skip because too much quitouts are annoying and boring, is just more subjective reasoning because someone doesn't like it.

                            Good luck on the discussion and I hope that even though I am not an active runner my response is at least read or considered, even though my post partly comes across as "bite through the sour apple" in a way lol.
                            "Success is not what you have, but who you are." -- Bo Bennett


                            • #15
                              Alright addressing a few issues here.

                              First: I believe "most" skips should be allowed within routes even if they are RNG, that being said I can see how miserable runners are with this skip and it's a very collective agreement from what I can tell. If you are to separate I do believe it should be Any% Partial Quitouts/Wolf Skip, Any% Current Patch, All Bosses and that will tie into point 2. We definitely need to see a longevity sort of thing with regards to this skip and whilst I'm all for this skip I'm sure once someone gets a decent run with instant wolf clip we will likely just slaughter our game, obviously this can't be predicted but it's not uncommon considering things like cat ring skip, people are quick to jump ship.

                              Second: I agree with pinkman all quitouts is awful and we have the ability to archive runs, I don't see any reason to keep all quitouts, not a single person has expressed interest in god knows how long and for good reason, if we are actioning big leaderboard changes as a whole I definitely think this category should go, partial quitouts should become the normalised route for true any% and wolf skip any% should fall under this line in some sort of fashion.

                              Third: No quitouts for much the same reason has lived it's time and needs to go far into legacy, idc if it's in misc or just archived on speedsouls we get less no quitout submissions than we do for glitchless, it's completely dated and anyone who is likely to defend it probably hasn't and won't run the game for over 2 years. Almost every runner and tbh verifier all communally agree we don't see a reason for NQO because "somebody" will complain but we right here are the community, the ones participating, the ones running, the ones contributing. This is our community lets stop appeasing to non runners for no apparent reason these days.